Apr 7, 2023·edited Apr 7, 2023Liked by Alison Acheson
When I am inserting a new scene or chapter into a second draft novel how do I do it without disturbing the flow of the story? I guess I am asking about the transition points?
I've been writing short essays on my Rocky Point Substack. Do you have any tips for ways I can switch my non-fiction, observational mind into a fiction engine that can create short stories and novels? Plot ideas escape me. Thanks!
Apr 8, 2023·edited Apr 8, 2023Liked by Alison Acheson
On the basis of your blog’s recent “Pilgrimage” column, you have observational skills, and the ability to generalize from what you observe (list of driving observations): very handy for fiction. And it sounds like you have a point of view and a sense of humor, also essential skills. But today’s fiction generally requires a story of some sort, a beginning, a middle, an end. In fiction, you’re not just journaling or recording a day’s events and impressions.
I don’t know how to come up with story ideas. Raymond Chandler only wrote seven novels, and several of these were just expansions of his own short stories. So even a writer as talented as Chandler struggled with this.
Since you know a lot about driving and traveling, maybe look at great road stories. Not only is there a film genre called road movies (Scarecrow, Wim Wenders’ Kings of the Road, even Nomadland), there’s also a genre of road novels and stories (On the Road, John Irving’s “Almost in Iowa,” Charles Portis’s The Dog of the South).
In these works, the road trip serves not only as a great premise for the story and a frame for hanging the story on, it’s also important for character development: if you solve the reasons why they’re on the road, maybe you also solve the character.
This is so useful, Frank. Thanks for posting.... It's a strange thing really: where do story ideas come from. Voice, humour (YES!!), observations--all necessary. And the "idea." Looking forward to writing about this one! Your last line about "why?" It's in there...
It's something I struggle with as well, but I get around it by starting out writing non-fiction, and then stretching it a bit so that there are fictional elements (which I make obvious to the reader). A series I'm doing called Experiments in Style is a clear example of this approach. But if I set out to write fiction, my mind becomes an utter blank! Basically, I have to fool myself into thinking I'm going to write just the facts, ma'am 😂
Hi Jordan (and apologies to Alison for jumping in). I recently discovered that I am an intuitive pantser type of writer which basically means that I have no idea what I am going to write until I put my fingers on the keyboard. Then the story literally writes itself and words flow onto my screen. I know it sounds crazy but have you tried it? Start with a sentence - any sentence - and see where it takes you. Try this one: Kathy couldn’t bear to see the
No apologies necessary, Rosy! This is about community; all thoughtful and respectful input welcome! Great starter half-sentence...
I think it can be scary to hear about others' stories "writing themselves" when one is struggling for ideas, BUT good to know if can happen, and does happen.
I am working on a response to this, and to your question, too, about finding editors!
A 75k manuscript is long. I'm not sure what you think is incredibly expensive--and all is so subjective and hangs on what one's budget is, I know! I find I end up charging anywhere from 1,000-1,400 to review/edit.
Do you have a writing group? A writing group is a serious time investment. But can be a solid piece to the re-writing and editing process.
This is another good question, and I'll spend some time putting together an answer. GREAT if others jump in here, too, with thoughts, as Frank has above, with Jordan's question!
... old house boarded up. Sorry about the break - my Substack has been very jittery recently. Best wishes for a great story which I would love to read. Rosy
Still struggling with the "Show don't tell" concept. You don't want to know how many "X felt..." are in my draft!!! Any simple tips or more in depth stuff welcome.
Need recommendations for videos, other resources or even short courses?
I'm guessing that you have, as you've been a subscriber for some time... so even after these, you're left with questions.
After awhile, it becomes less about the "show-don't-tell," and more about scene building.
We do have a "scene-writing" workshop. Would you want to send me a piece so we can post an actual piece you're struggling with, and work on it? If so, email it to me, alison@alisonacheson.com, and I'll post it. (Or is there a piece on your Substack you'd like me/us to take a look at?)
In the meantime, I'll do some mulling, and answer as #5 Q&A. I appreciate you letting me know you still have this question!
So often, there's a tendency to side with one or the other, but more often, writing asks of us whatever it needs at the time... so to stay open-minded.
Understanding when to show, and when to tell, and how to work with both and... I couldn't scoff at. If a story is "told" with no showing, it's going to lose the reader in ways they don't necessarily understand. But if there's no telling, the thing will take too long! And might leave the reader head-scratching.
All the bits and pieces we need to know about and make parts of our practice.
Thanks for sharing this piece, Frank. The words about "writing what you know" and the silliness of "sympathetic characters" only.... this is all useful to think about.
In 1964, "Harriet the Spy" was published, the first time that a children's heroine was not so likeable, and it was panned. But the story and Harriet have endured. She's a real child.
Might be too late to this, but I've been holding back posting some of my non-fiction/essays/ramblings online to a substack or blog because I cannot commit to a set topic/theme. I tend to be an all over the place kind of person and have a wider net of interests/subject matters that spring to mind vs just one or two more set topics, and haven't been sure how big of a problem this may pose in attracting and keeping a core set of readers in the short or long term.
:-) Thanks, Alison. At a tangent to this matter, I've often wished that novels had indexes. Very very few have. I know that's not to do with the author (except in self-publishing), but it would be really useful to be able to look up particular bits instead of having to remember where they appeared in the book!
I tend to have very marked-up books! Fiction and otherwise. I have no problem with dog-earing and underlining and scribbling comments. (And love when I buy second-hand or am given a book with others' comments.) How else can we learn? Not just as reader-writers but as humans?
Forms of e-reading allow you to do this, but I still love a book-in-hand!
Currently I'm reading a best-seller for my book club--a romance, for all intents and purposes, which I don't usually read. 'Lessons in Chemistry' is the title. I'm shocked by the sloppy copy-editing. (WHY am I shocked?) I imagine most publishers would actively resist the $$ of creating an index. (If they don't put funds into copy-editing!)
well, there's no excuse for sloppy editing. My books tend to be festooned with bookmarks and post-it notes rather than scribblings. In England, publishers' contracts mostly stipulate that if an author wants an index he/she can pay for it. Charming!
In N. America, if we quote anyone--poet, songwriter--we request directly and pay for the usage ourselves. Though I have ascertained that price before signing a contract, and successfully asked for the publisher to share the cost!
We have the same: author expected to clear all the permissions and pay for them. I belong to the Society of Authors, and they always make suggestions as to how to respond to the publisher, which can basically be summarised as "You're having a laugh, mate"
I’ve made it through the first draft of my first novel. That was always the initial goal, and now that I’m here, I’m really curious about the revision/editing process. As a first timer, how should I go about this? Also loving the comments and info about agents and the publishing tidbits. Thanks!
Scroll down to the "writing fiction" section. There are a number of posts here that you'll find useful - one on filling calendar pages, as a way to structure and pace; another on "form and content" and how they work with each to put the thing into shape! "Setting" and more.
Browse through, and check out the indexes for '22 and this year, too.
Let me know the questions you're mulling through after the browse. I'd like to know!
AND congrats on getting that first draft complete--to have met that goal is worthy of a deep breath, a moment, and a serious nod! Yes!
I haven’t waded into those murky waters yet. I’m not sure which direction to swim and how deep the water is. Instead, I’ve taken the advice that I’ve heard from other authors to “let it rest” for a time before diving in.
What I have found is that I’m getting more excited about rereading my story and inspired about the revision process instead of the dread I felt immediately after finishing.
My thought is to first read it in it’s entirety and make notations but no changes. Then, go back and reread while I make some serious changes to improve the overarching plot and character arcs. Cleaning up the flow of the story. Then, line editing. Three sweeps in total? I really am not sure when I’ve made it to the beach on the opposite side. It looks far, but it might be even further than I suspect...
Tristan, this sounds solid--including the "let it breathe" for a bit. That definitely part of the process, and a necessary part.
The reading through while resisting the urge to start the work is a tough piece of self-discipline--yes, it is! But also sound.
One thing you might do alongside that step (or on the next, if that feels less intrusive) is to print up calendar pages and make some notations there--see if the dates/days/passing of seasons and more is working. See this post for more on that. (And I'll get to work to pull more thoughts together! VERY exciting, this stage, AND glad to hear that the excitement--and necessary energy!--is growing! That really is a good sign. Thank you for sharing this--I do appreciate.
When I am inserting a new scene or chapter into a second draft novel how do I do it without disturbing the flow of the story? I guess I am asking about the transition points?
I look forward to getting on this... Thanks, Joan!
I've been writing short essays on my Rocky Point Substack. Do you have any tips for ways I can switch my non-fiction, observational mind into a fiction engine that can create short stories and novels? Plot ideas escape me. Thanks!
On the basis of your blog’s recent “Pilgrimage” column, you have observational skills, and the ability to generalize from what you observe (list of driving observations): very handy for fiction. And it sounds like you have a point of view and a sense of humor, also essential skills. But today’s fiction generally requires a story of some sort, a beginning, a middle, an end. In fiction, you’re not just journaling or recording a day’s events and impressions.
I don’t know how to come up with story ideas. Raymond Chandler only wrote seven novels, and several of these were just expansions of his own short stories. So even a writer as talented as Chandler struggled with this.
Since you know a lot about driving and traveling, maybe look at great road stories. Not only is there a film genre called road movies (Scarecrow, Wim Wenders’ Kings of the Road, even Nomadland), there’s also a genre of road novels and stories (On the Road, John Irving’s “Almost in Iowa,” Charles Portis’s The Dog of the South).
In these works, the road trip serves not only as a great premise for the story and a frame for hanging the story on, it’s also important for character development: if you solve the reasons why they’re on the road, maybe you also solve the character.
Good luck!
Thanks for the kind words and tips.I'll give it a shot!
Happy Easter!
Jordan
This is so useful, Frank. Thanks for posting.... It's a strange thing really: where do story ideas come from. Voice, humour (YES!!), observations--all necessary. And the "idea." Looking forward to writing about this one! Your last line about "why?" It's in there...
It's something I struggle with as well, but I get around it by starting out writing non-fiction, and then stretching it a bit so that there are fictional elements (which I make obvious to the reader). A series I'm doing called Experiments in Style is a clear example of this approach. But if I set out to write fiction, my mind becomes an utter blank! Basically, I have to fool myself into thinking I'm going to write just the facts, ma'am 😂
Interesting to read this--thanks, Terry. I'm working on this question next. Stay posted!
Great. I look forward to reading it 😃
Hi Jordan (and apologies to Alison for jumping in). I recently discovered that I am an intuitive pantser type of writer which basically means that I have no idea what I am going to write until I put my fingers on the keyboard. Then the story literally writes itself and words flow onto my screen. I know it sounds crazy but have you tried it? Start with a sentence - any sentence - and see where it takes you. Try this one: Kathy couldn’t bear to see the
No apologies necessary, Rosy! This is about community; all thoughtful and respectful input welcome! Great starter half-sentence...
I think it can be scary to hear about others' stories "writing themselves" when one is struggling for ideas, BUT good to know if can happen, and does happen.
I am working on a response to this, and to your question, too, about finding editors!
Onward...
Hey--Stephen king does it, why not!? He says, No surprise for the writer, no surprise for the reader.
A solid quote, yes.
Hi Alison. How can I find an editor for my 75,000 word m/s without breaking the bank? All the ones I have checked out are incredibly expensive.
A 75k manuscript is long. I'm not sure what you think is incredibly expensive--and all is so subjective and hangs on what one's budget is, I know! I find I end up charging anywhere from 1,000-1,400 to review/edit.
Do you have a writing group? A writing group is a serious time investment. But can be a solid piece to the re-writing and editing process.
This is another good question, and I'll spend some time putting together an answer. GREAT if others jump in here, too, with thoughts, as Frank has above, with Jordan's question!
All good to see!
... old house boarded up. Sorry about the break - my Substack has been very jittery recently. Best wishes for a great story which I would love to read. Rosy
OK then...what's the best way to find an agent? Or, in today's publishing world, is having an agent still an advantage? Thx and keep up the good work.
This will be number 4... coming up!
Of help here Re agents: https://michaelmohr.substack.com/p/getting-your-book-to-an-agent-from
Still struggling with the "Show don't tell" concept. You don't want to know how many "X felt..." are in my draft!!! Any simple tips or more in depth stuff welcome.
Need recommendations for videos, other resources or even short courses?
Ha... yes, I understand about the "X felt/s..."
Nick, have you read through both of my posts about this?
https://unschoolforwriters.substack.com/p/show-dont-tell-with-focus-on-show and
https://unschoolforwriters.substack.com/p/show-when-you-_______-tell-when-you ??
I'm guessing that you have, as you've been a subscriber for some time... so even after these, you're left with questions.
After awhile, it becomes less about the "show-don't-tell," and more about scene building.
We do have a "scene-writing" workshop. Would you want to send me a piece so we can post an actual piece you're struggling with, and work on it? If so, email it to me, alison@alisonacheson.com, and I'll post it. (Or is there a piece on your Substack you'd like me/us to take a look at?)
In the meantime, I'll do some mulling, and answer as #5 Q&A. I appreciate you letting me know you still have this question!
Over at Big Bang Poetry today, Mary references a short article by John Rechy where he scoffs at the show-don’t-tell rule:
https://www.bigbangpoetry.com/2023/04/essay-project-workshop-rules-and-pastiche/
https://www.johnrechy.com/onWriting_3rules.htm
I had to post two pieces when I dealt with this subject not so long ago, just to get to the other side, the "tell" piece.
https://unschoolforwriters.substack.com/p/show-when-you-_______-tell-when-you
So often, there's a tendency to side with one or the other, but more often, writing asks of us whatever it needs at the time... so to stay open-minded.
Understanding when to show, and when to tell, and how to work with both and... I couldn't scoff at. If a story is "told" with no showing, it's going to lose the reader in ways they don't necessarily understand. But if there's no telling, the thing will take too long! And might leave the reader head-scratching.
All the bits and pieces we need to know about and make parts of our practice.
Thanks for sharing this piece, Frank. The words about "writing what you know" and the silliness of "sympathetic characters" only.... this is all useful to think about.
In 1964, "Harriet the Spy" was published, the first time that a children's heroine was not so likeable, and it was panned. But the story and Harriet have endured. She's a real child.
Hi Nick--I'm revisiting this list. And am curious about what questions are still with you at this point?
Might be too late to this, but I've been holding back posting some of my non-fiction/essays/ramblings online to a substack or blog because I cannot commit to a set topic/theme. I tend to be an all over the place kind of person and have a wider net of interests/subject matters that spring to mind vs just one or two more set topics, and haven't been sure how big of a problem this may pose in attracting and keeping a core set of readers in the short or long term.
My stack covers everything and I’m growing quite well 👍
Very cool to see your recent growth! Congratulations, Michael!
I share your question.
Looks like this is #6 question--I'll post about it this week. I am so grateful to see all of these! It's been good to dig into answers.
I like to use fiction techniques in my nonfiction writing, but do you think there are nonfiction techniques that could be used in fiction?
This is a great question... as in, it has my mind waking up! (It's only 9:09 a.m.)
I'm currently working with Tara's and still thinking about the "show/tell" thing, but I will dig into this. Thank you, Terry!
:-) Thanks, Alison. At a tangent to this matter, I've often wished that novels had indexes. Very very few have. I know that's not to do with the author (except in self-publishing), but it would be really useful to be able to look up particular bits instead of having to remember where they appeared in the book!
I tend to have very marked-up books! Fiction and otherwise. I have no problem with dog-earing and underlining and scribbling comments. (And love when I buy second-hand or am given a book with others' comments.) How else can we learn? Not just as reader-writers but as humans?
Forms of e-reading allow you to do this, but I still love a book-in-hand!
Currently I'm reading a best-seller for my book club--a romance, for all intents and purposes, which I don't usually read. 'Lessons in Chemistry' is the title. I'm shocked by the sloppy copy-editing. (WHY am I shocked?) I imagine most publishers would actively resist the $$ of creating an index. (If they don't put funds into copy-editing!)
But...
well, there's no excuse for sloppy editing. My books tend to be festooned with bookmarks and post-it notes rather than scribblings. In England, publishers' contracts mostly stipulate that if an author wants an index he/she can pay for it. Charming!
In N. America, if we quote anyone--poet, songwriter--we request directly and pay for the usage ourselves. Though I have ascertained that price before signing a contract, and successfully asked for the publisher to share the cost!
We have the same: author expected to clear all the permissions and pay for them. I belong to the Society of Authors, and they always make suggestions as to how to respond to the publisher, which can basically be summarised as "You're having a laugh, mate"
I’ve made it through the first draft of my first novel. That was always the initial goal, and now that I’m here, I’m really curious about the revision/editing process. As a first timer, how should I go about this? Also loving the comments and info about agents and the publishing tidbits. Thanks!
Hi Tristan! Welcome to the Unschool!
The first question in this series--Joan's, about flow--is venturing into "second draft" material.
Here's the link to the first "index," for 2021.
https://unschoolforwriters.substack.com/p/index-of-unschool-posts
Scroll down to the "writing fiction" section. There are a number of posts here that you'll find useful - one on filling calendar pages, as a way to structure and pace; another on "form and content" and how they work with each to put the thing into shape! "Setting" and more.
Browse through, and check out the indexes for '22 and this year, too.
Let me know the questions you're mulling through after the browse. I'd like to know!
AND congrats on getting that first draft complete--to have met that goal is worthy of a deep breath, a moment, and a serious nod! Yes!
And now the fun begins...
Tristan, I'm now at this #7 question... and suspect this one is on many people's minds.
Have you waded in to draft #2 yet? What are you discovering?
I'm thinking I'll pull together a list of all posts that speak to this, all in one place, and then add summative thoughts on this process.
Thank you--it IS a solid question!
Hi Alison,
I haven’t waded into those murky waters yet. I’m not sure which direction to swim and how deep the water is. Instead, I’ve taken the advice that I’ve heard from other authors to “let it rest” for a time before diving in.
What I have found is that I’m getting more excited about rereading my story and inspired about the revision process instead of the dread I felt immediately after finishing.
My thought is to first read it in it’s entirety and make notations but no changes. Then, go back and reread while I make some serious changes to improve the overarching plot and character arcs. Cleaning up the flow of the story. Then, line editing. Three sweeps in total? I really am not sure when I’ve made it to the beach on the opposite side. It looks far, but it might be even further than I suspect...
Tristan, this sounds solid--including the "let it breathe" for a bit. That definitely part of the process, and a necessary part.
The reading through while resisting the urge to start the work is a tough piece of self-discipline--yes, it is! But also sound.
One thing you might do alongside that step (or on the next, if that feels less intrusive) is to print up calendar pages and make some notations there--see if the dates/days/passing of seasons and more is working. See this post for more on that. (And I'll get to work to pull more thoughts together! VERY exciting, this stage, AND glad to hear that the excitement--and necessary energy!--is growing! That really is a good sign. Thank you for sharing this--I do appreciate.
https://unschoolforwriters.substack.com/p/novel-writing-using-printed-calendar