Alison, Thank YOU so much!. I love your newsletter and am honored to have baked your celebration cake. Merry Half-Birthday and cheers to the next six months of writing and burning bright ❤️ 🎂
Half a cake made me think of half-baked, which I realize is not at all the same thing, but in writing terms one problem is half-baked ideas: if you haven't sat with your ideas long enough, the writing may feel forced, which may mostly be a problem for you rather than your writing, but still ...
(By this I mean, when I write, that I tense up if I have a deadline or just an inner compulsion to write before I've let the ideas fully percolate - but that doesn't necessarily mean the writing suffers; just I do.)
Last night I had a deadline and didn't really feel ready, but pushed on and felt a bit tense (not as tense as some other times) - there was also the problem that I was writing an encyclopedia article, which can still be creative in its way, but there is the issue of, you know, getting the facts right, so stopping to check my notes to see: was it 24 editions or 27 editions that East Lynne went through (this was an article on Mrs. Henry Wood for an encyclopedia on Victorian Women's Writing).
And how do I celebrate? Why, by writing about my writing, as I'm doing here, or sharing it, as I'm also doing here.
And as to the other point in the newsletter, about editors asking you to rewrite, well, I've always resisted that. Alison's example seems to prove my point: why cut Uncle Early? I would trust my inner inspiration, not what the editors think, not even what I think the next day, but I'm a bit of a heretic on this.
Sheldon, thank you for this--you leave a lot to think about! YES, to letting ideas gestate--if you can. Sometimes you can't, and HAVE to write through them. (Maybe that's when we need the cake...!) But sometimes going for a walk is the most productive thing I can do, and when I return and sit down to work again, some of it's been done for me. (By me--but if feels like for me.)
Ha! About celebrating by writing. That is quite true. And I'm glad you're sharing.
In the case of Uncle Early, it was a request from US HarperCollins. I struggled to say no. This is going back years ago. A contract with HC would have changed the direction my career was going in at that point; I thought it worth a try, and I did give it 100%. But in the end, I knew that I had to stay with my gut; the young reader merely confirmed that.
It's tough. One of my published books was completely re-written, and I feel sad about it as I know that where it came from was a richer story. But no one wanted it as it was.
In the present case, I think I have something useful to learn... and so am going ahead with it. I appreciate your note about "not even what I think the next day"--so true.
Off to read your piece now--thank you for posting!
This is my morning to catch up on reading! Thank you for the link, Sheldon! The academic world is one I am grateful to have escaped--and your review causes me to feel that keenly. I read Russian novels for a decade, late teens to late twenties, and those reading years have a warm place in my memory. When I took history classes (my undergrad) I was always happy to see a Russian work on the reading list--they turned up there often!
Here's a YES to celebrating with writing, and to celebrate such reading with the same, too.
But I swear I did some drug reading the BK--for WEEKS afterward, I thought I'd stumble over the characters around every corner. There's something about allowing myself to fall into one of those... Technique and analysis have their place. But so does absorption. Reading. Living. And yes, being heretical.
Well, I do write books...cookbooks with personal narrative and one of my favorite recipes is Clean the Oven Pie. It always makes me laugh, and it IS a pie we have all made . . . at least once.
CLEAN THE OVEN PIE
Makes one pie
INGREDIENTS
1 Recipe for Double or Single Pie Dough
1 Recipe for Fruit Filling
PROCEDURE
1. Make your favorite pie filling with fresh or unthawed frozen fruit
(berries, pie cherries, rhubarb, etc.)—the juicier the better.
2. Mound it really high.
3. Cover it with a top crust and cut vents or make a lattice crust.
4. Bake it in the oven.
5. You will know when it is nearly done when you start to smell burning
filling.
6. Open the oven to release smoke.
7. Fan the smoke away from the smoke alarm that is now going off. (Opening windows at this time is good too.)
8. Remove pie from oven when it has bubbled over enough.
And this morning, made time to read your piece about ingredient-substitution!! Oh my--to both your response, and "Joe's," to the woman who refuses to use salt, and doesn't understand what salt DOES.
Again, yours evokes a character. Cooking with narrative, yes! Maybe we'll see a holiday-cooking story submitted... ?!
Wow, Alison. Your discussion on editorial notes is so timely and helpful. Thank you.
After signing with an agent in August and reviewing the five pages of notes she gave me over the last month or so, I've just started the revision process this week. Let's just say that after a morning of re-reading my own work with her notes in mind, I spent the afternoon on Indeed.com looking for a new career.
The suggestions she's made feel very much against the grain of my story. It feels like I'm supposed to change the protagonist's basic view of the world and her inclinations toward it--she's got to go from being the conventional, rule-abiding, "just want a normal life" teen to a Greta Thurnberg-style crusader. And the messy, inappropriate sexual relationship that drives the protag's crisis needs to be pulled entirely because it's not appropriate for YA audiences. I get the sense I'm being asked to sanitize, or in some way make palatable the mess of loss, addiction, neglect and poverty that drove me to write this story in the first place.
When the agent and I had "the talk" this summer, I had only a glimmer of what she was asking. And I wonder if I'd have been able to see it clearly anyway, even if the full scope of the changes she suggested were clear. I saw what I desperately needed to see: that I was a writer who would be published, and she wanted to help me. Because who turns an agent down, honestly? With a first book? Wouldn't that be insane? How would I explain such a thing to other writers, to myself? After so many years of work?
I really feel as if this is my only chance to make that long longed-for move from Writer to Author. But at what cost? If I can even write this other book she's asking for, and that's a big if, will I even care to have it out in the world? I worry that it won't be mine at all. An orphan. A lifeless book that I cannot claim. The irony is that it was exactly those stories--the messy, shameful stories--that took me so many years to claim as a writer. And now I'm being asked to hide them again.
But even in all this uncertainty, Alison, this comment of yours resonates: "I set aside both ego and humility, and just get open."
I think I need to give it a try. Even with these major misgivings, I don't know how I would justify backing out at this point. I tell myself that maybe the "real" story will find its way through some other channel, and this is what professional writers do--take feedback, write to spec, meet deadlines. And if that other story never sees publication, at least I wrote it. Clumsily, incompletely, but written.
Thanks again for the space to share these all-too-live writing struggles, Alison.
Thank you for sharing this--I feel a lot here. Which is why I also noted the story of the 8 pages... note my agent's response to that. I DID spend 6 whole months working on that... only to have my thoughts/feelings confirmed by a young reader, and then by my agent. (You do want an agent who is on-side--this might not be the one!)
NOW I'm being asked for stylistic changes.
Sheldon, in his comments, says he's a "heretic" about this, and doesn't listen.
It's tough. I can't tell you what to do. You might need to spend 6 months... only to come to the same place you've been. Except it will be different.
Where I'm at now, I'm realizing that I do cut a lot of words, I have developed certain writing tics. I think they work for older YA material and for adult. But the novel in question at the moment is closer to a middle-grade work... and the editor's comments make me think that there's something I need to try on, and listen to.
You've had a time getting to where you are. You might consider letting the agent know you're not entirely comfortable with the suggestions, but you're going to give them a try, and see how they fit and feel.
It was one of the toughest things I've ever done, saying "no" to that editor. I don't know where my career would be if I'd sent back the ms. (She never did see the re-write--I did not feel good about it. The book was published by Coteau, and it never was "acclaimed," but I've had individual readers write me to say it meant something to them. Out of the blue, one year, I had a student who said she remembered reading it in her library as a kid, and took my course as a result. The rewards of writing are many!)
I wish we could have a psychic or some way of knowing... but we don't, not really. We have to feel in our guts.
Know you can back out. Know you may have to explore.
Know you can explore. Know you may have to back out.
Maybe there's a middle way--a combination of Sheldon's hereticism (if that's a word!) and some try-it-and-see. I've always got so many thoughts, worries, stories (!) about how I believe things will go, what it all means, what's right and what's wrong, and in the end, I just keep planting myself in that chair every day, letting whatever comes, come.
I do like this "six months" idea. One of the fears is that I'll give another year or more of my writing life to a dead end, but perhaps if I time-bound it, or at least promise myself a clear-eyed review at that point, I'll feel less anxious.
Thanks so much for this, Alison. I'll be sitting with these words, especially those last two lines.
What Laura Nicol's editor suggests disturbs me, and I've had to ponder over my response. YAs experience what Laura writes about, so...???? Then I had to think - what age IS YA. I googled it, and more than one source agrees that it's 12-18. Really?? There is a huge gap in maturity between 12 and 18. How can you reasonably expect a writer to write about tough issues and speak to both 12 and 18 year olds? What is entirely appropriate for an 18 year may be beyond a 12 year old. Nevertheless, I've known women who became sexually active at 13 and 14. Who grew up in poverty.
And I've known teens who won't read the news because the way humans treat each other is too depressing.
So it seems - without reading either the novel nor the editor's comments - that Laura Nicol's topics are age appropriate. Or, has Laura Nicol written a novel for adults?
It is true that humans more often want an uplifting lesson or ending in their reading, but not smarmy.
I wish Laura Nicol well in her rewrites and publishing path. I am sure she will find her way while keeping true to what her novel wants to say.
I should add that the real Greta T story isn’t just her crusade but the way so many, especially adult males, wrote her off as a mindless teen mouthpiece for her parents, or environmentalists, or whomever they could think of as long as it did not credit Greta with the ability to think for herself.
Amy, it's noteworthy that it's not yet an editor... it's her agent asking for this.
And you're absolutely right--there's a world of difference between 12 and 18. Each so called YA book does not--CANNOT--speak to all in the age group. Just like all the younger age groups, there are all the myriad changes and all the variables with the individual readers. Which is why writing for children and young people can actually nourish the longevity of a title: the "generations" of a readership for a book, changes and renews every 18 months or couple of years, and even faster for books for toddlers/preschoolers.
Alison, Thank YOU so much!. I love your newsletter and am honored to have baked your celebration cake. Merry Half-Birthday and cheers to the next six months of writing and burning bright ❤️ 🎂
This was really a lot of fun, Jolene! Thank you for the well wishes :)
Half a cake made me think of half-baked, which I realize is not at all the same thing, but in writing terms one problem is half-baked ideas: if you haven't sat with your ideas long enough, the writing may feel forced, which may mostly be a problem for you rather than your writing, but still ...
(By this I mean, when I write, that I tense up if I have a deadline or just an inner compulsion to write before I've let the ideas fully percolate - but that doesn't necessarily mean the writing suffers; just I do.)
Last night I had a deadline and didn't really feel ready, but pushed on and felt a bit tense (not as tense as some other times) - there was also the problem that I was writing an encyclopedia article, which can still be creative in its way, but there is the issue of, you know, getting the facts right, so stopping to check my notes to see: was it 24 editions or 27 editions that East Lynne went through (this was an article on Mrs. Henry Wood for an encyclopedia on Victorian Women's Writing).
Easier to write book reviews, like a recent one I did for the online Ormsby Review on Dostoevsky: I can just let fly then and let the creativity take over. If you're interested, here it is: https://ormsbyreview.com/2021/10/30/1266-goldfarb-bowers-holland-dostoevsky/
And how do I celebrate? Why, by writing about my writing, as I'm doing here, or sharing it, as I'm also doing here.
And as to the other point in the newsletter, about editors asking you to rewrite, well, I've always resisted that. Alison's example seems to prove my point: why cut Uncle Early? I would trust my inner inspiration, not what the editors think, not even what I think the next day, but I'm a bit of a heretic on this.
Sheldon
Sheldon, thank you for this--you leave a lot to think about! YES, to letting ideas gestate--if you can. Sometimes you can't, and HAVE to write through them. (Maybe that's when we need the cake...!) But sometimes going for a walk is the most productive thing I can do, and when I return and sit down to work again, some of it's been done for me. (By me--but if feels like for me.)
Ha! About celebrating by writing. That is quite true. And I'm glad you're sharing.
In the case of Uncle Early, it was a request from US HarperCollins. I struggled to say no. This is going back years ago. A contract with HC would have changed the direction my career was going in at that point; I thought it worth a try, and I did give it 100%. But in the end, I knew that I had to stay with my gut; the young reader merely confirmed that.
It's tough. One of my published books was completely re-written, and I feel sad about it as I know that where it came from was a richer story. But no one wanted it as it was.
In the present case, I think I have something useful to learn... and so am going ahead with it. I appreciate your note about "not even what I think the next day"--so true.
Off to read your piece now--thank you for posting!
This is my morning to catch up on reading! Thank you for the link, Sheldon! The academic world is one I am grateful to have escaped--and your review causes me to feel that keenly. I read Russian novels for a decade, late teens to late twenties, and those reading years have a warm place in my memory. When I took history classes (my undergrad) I was always happy to see a Russian work on the reading list--they turned up there often!
Here's a YES to celebrating with writing, and to celebrate such reading with the same, too.
Thank you.
If you've read Brothers Karamazov, then I presume you already know the meaning of life.
Oh, the older I get... the less I know.
But I swear I did some drug reading the BK--for WEEKS afterward, I thought I'd stumble over the characters around every corner. There's something about allowing myself to fall into one of those... Technique and analysis have their place. But so does absorption. Reading. Living. And yes, being heretical.
Well, I do write books...cookbooks with personal narrative and one of my favorite recipes is Clean the Oven Pie. It always makes me laugh, and it IS a pie we have all made . . . at least once.
CLEAN THE OVEN PIE
Makes one pie
INGREDIENTS
1 Recipe for Double or Single Pie Dough
1 Recipe for Fruit Filling
PROCEDURE
1. Make your favorite pie filling with fresh or unthawed frozen fruit
(berries, pie cherries, rhubarb, etc.)—the juicier the better.
2. Mound it really high.
3. Cover it with a top crust and cut vents or make a lattice crust.
4. Bake it in the oven.
5. You will know when it is nearly done when you start to smell burning
filling.
6. Open the oven to release smoke.
7. Fan the smoke away from the smoke alarm that is now going off. (Opening windows at this time is good too.)
8. Remove pie from oven when it has bubbled over enough.
9. While pie cools, clean oven.
Another piece I wrote is about folks being angry when recipes don't work because they substitute ingredients that are wildly off from what a recipe lists. It's another fav. https://artofthepie.com/piechiatrist-hint-follow-the-directions/
Happy Half Birthday!
Kate
P.S. I'm a fan of Jolene's as well. In fact, together we are co-hosting the Food & Drink: Substack Grow Meet Up session tomorrow.
I love this, Kate! It begins to read as a story, and I start to see characters...! That will be the most FUN meet up tomorrow!
And this morning, made time to read your piece about ingredient-substitution!! Oh my--to both your response, and "Joe's," to the woman who refuses to use salt, and doesn't understand what salt DOES.
Again, yours evokes a character. Cooking with narrative, yes! Maybe we'll see a holiday-cooking story submitted... ?!
Wow, Alison. Your discussion on editorial notes is so timely and helpful. Thank you.
After signing with an agent in August and reviewing the five pages of notes she gave me over the last month or so, I've just started the revision process this week. Let's just say that after a morning of re-reading my own work with her notes in mind, I spent the afternoon on Indeed.com looking for a new career.
The suggestions she's made feel very much against the grain of my story. It feels like I'm supposed to change the protagonist's basic view of the world and her inclinations toward it--she's got to go from being the conventional, rule-abiding, "just want a normal life" teen to a Greta Thurnberg-style crusader. And the messy, inappropriate sexual relationship that drives the protag's crisis needs to be pulled entirely because it's not appropriate for YA audiences. I get the sense I'm being asked to sanitize, or in some way make palatable the mess of loss, addiction, neglect and poverty that drove me to write this story in the first place.
When the agent and I had "the talk" this summer, I had only a glimmer of what she was asking. And I wonder if I'd have been able to see it clearly anyway, even if the full scope of the changes she suggested were clear. I saw what I desperately needed to see: that I was a writer who would be published, and she wanted to help me. Because who turns an agent down, honestly? With a first book? Wouldn't that be insane? How would I explain such a thing to other writers, to myself? After so many years of work?
I really feel as if this is my only chance to make that long longed-for move from Writer to Author. But at what cost? If I can even write this other book she's asking for, and that's a big if, will I even care to have it out in the world? I worry that it won't be mine at all. An orphan. A lifeless book that I cannot claim. The irony is that it was exactly those stories--the messy, shameful stories--that took me so many years to claim as a writer. And now I'm being asked to hide them again.
But even in all this uncertainty, Alison, this comment of yours resonates: "I set aside both ego and humility, and just get open."
I think I need to give it a try. Even with these major misgivings, I don't know how I would justify backing out at this point. I tell myself that maybe the "real" story will find its way through some other channel, and this is what professional writers do--take feedback, write to spec, meet deadlines. And if that other story never sees publication, at least I wrote it. Clumsily, incompletely, but written.
Thanks again for the space to share these all-too-live writing struggles, Alison.
Thank you for sharing this--I feel a lot here. Which is why I also noted the story of the 8 pages... note my agent's response to that. I DID spend 6 whole months working on that... only to have my thoughts/feelings confirmed by a young reader, and then by my agent. (You do want an agent who is on-side--this might not be the one!)
NOW I'm being asked for stylistic changes.
Sheldon, in his comments, says he's a "heretic" about this, and doesn't listen.
It's tough. I can't tell you what to do. You might need to spend 6 months... only to come to the same place you've been. Except it will be different.
Where I'm at now, I'm realizing that I do cut a lot of words, I have developed certain writing tics. I think they work for older YA material and for adult. But the novel in question at the moment is closer to a middle-grade work... and the editor's comments make me think that there's something I need to try on, and listen to.
You've had a time getting to where you are. You might consider letting the agent know you're not entirely comfortable with the suggestions, but you're going to give them a try, and see how they fit and feel.
It was one of the toughest things I've ever done, saying "no" to that editor. I don't know where my career would be if I'd sent back the ms. (She never did see the re-write--I did not feel good about it. The book was published by Coteau, and it never was "acclaimed," but I've had individual readers write me to say it meant something to them. Out of the blue, one year, I had a student who said she remembered reading it in her library as a kid, and took my course as a result. The rewards of writing are many!)
I wish we could have a psychic or some way of knowing... but we don't, not really. We have to feel in our guts.
Know you can back out. Know you may have to explore.
Know you can explore. Know you may have to back out.
Maybe there's a middle way--a combination of Sheldon's hereticism (if that's a word!) and some try-it-and-see. I've always got so many thoughts, worries, stories (!) about how I believe things will go, what it all means, what's right and what's wrong, and in the end, I just keep planting myself in that chair every day, letting whatever comes, come.
I do like this "six months" idea. One of the fears is that I'll give another year or more of my writing life to a dead end, but perhaps if I time-bound it, or at least promise myself a clear-eyed review at that point, I'll feel less anxious.
Thanks so much for this, Alison. I'll be sitting with these words, especially those last two lines.
And re-read the Ghost Pages post!! https://diymfatheunschoolforwriters.substack.com/p/ghost-pages
I will!
What Laura Nicol's editor suggests disturbs me, and I've had to ponder over my response. YAs experience what Laura writes about, so...???? Then I had to think - what age IS YA. I googled it, and more than one source agrees that it's 12-18. Really?? There is a huge gap in maturity between 12 and 18. How can you reasonably expect a writer to write about tough issues and speak to both 12 and 18 year olds? What is entirely appropriate for an 18 year may be beyond a 12 year old. Nevertheless, I've known women who became sexually active at 13 and 14. Who grew up in poverty.
And I've known teens who won't read the news because the way humans treat each other is too depressing.
So it seems - without reading either the novel nor the editor's comments - that Laura Nicol's topics are age appropriate. Or, has Laura Nicol written a novel for adults?
It is true that humans more often want an uplifting lesson or ending in their reading, but not smarmy.
I wish Laura Nicol well in her rewrites and publishing path. I am sure she will find her way while keeping true to what her novel wants to say.
I should add that the real Greta T story isn’t just her crusade but the way so many, especially adult males, wrote her off as a mindless teen mouthpiece for her parents, or environmentalists, or whomever they could think of as long as it did not credit Greta with the ability to think for herself.
Amy, it's noteworthy that it's not yet an editor... it's her agent asking for this.
And you're absolutely right--there's a world of difference between 12 and 18. Each so called YA book does not--CANNOT--speak to all in the age group. Just like all the younger age groups, there are all the myriad changes and all the variables with the individual readers. Which is why writing for children and young people can actually nourish the longevity of a title: the "generations" of a readership for a book, changes and renews every 18 months or couple of years, and even faster for books for toddlers/preschoolers.
I often try your writing tips. This time, I will try the linked pumpkin cake recipe! Mmmm!